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	<title>Comments on: Muslim Speaks at My Church, Calls Me &#8220;Naive.&#8221; Also &#8220;Tough.&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/</link>
	<description>Sometime editor, all-the-time mother, delivering facts, reviews, commentary, and rants. Occasionally in that order.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: JunkYardBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-89735</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-89735</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;A blogging force of extraordinary magnitude......&lt;/strong&gt;

...forged in the spirit of our ancestors, will be posting here for the next week or ten days while I am relocating. They have my...gratitude. Regular readers know Okie and Geoff already. Cameron may make an appearance as well. But......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>A blogging force of extraordinary magnitude&#8230;&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;forged in the spirit of our ancestors, will be posting here for the next week or ten days while I am relocating. They have my&#8230;gratitude. Regular readers know Okie and Geoff already. Cameron may make an appearance as well. But&#8230;&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: LagunaDave</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-57537</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-57537</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Even with Buddha and Jesus, they are not exactly worshipped as Gods themselves

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is the most bizarre comment I've seen in awhile.  I'm not a Christian believer myself, but if you think Jesus isn't "worshipped as god," you don't know much about Christianity...

&lt;blockquote&gt;
But even then, I don’t hear a lot of Christians naming their children “Jesus”. 

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I see you don't get get to Latin America much, either...

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Even with Buddha and Jesus, they are not exactly worshipped as Gods themselves</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is the most bizarre comment I&#8217;ve seen in awhile.  I&#8217;m not a Christian believer myself, but if you think Jesus isn&#8217;t &#8220;worshipped as god,&#8221; you don&#8217;t know much about Christianity&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>
But even then, I don’t hear a lot of Christians naming their children “Jesus”. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>I see you don&#8217;t get get to Latin America much, either&#8230;</p>
<p>:-)
</p>
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		<title>by: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-57009</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-57009</guid>
					<description>Islam has a weird idol worship problem compared to Catholicism, Protestantism, and various other religions. Even with Buddha and Jesus, they are not exactly worshipped as Gods themselves, yet with Mohammed he is a god and he is taken to be never wrong. Because Mohammed is a person, that produces a couple of logic problems.

Not only because what Mohammed taught was wrong but rather that you cannot reform Islam if you name all your children "Mohammed" as if Mohammed was some kind of God you still worship. If you bring Mohammed to such a pedestal of perfection above God, then there is no way you can question his teachings and if you cannot quesiton his teachings then you cannot correct and reform them into something humane and workable for the 21st century. Just as it was with God, and following the literal word of God put down in the Old Testament; without the influence of Jesus and the New Testament, things would be a lot harsher. But even then, I don't hear a lot of Christians naming their children "Jesus".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Islam has a weird idol worship problem compared to Catholicism, Protestantism, and various other religions. Even with Buddha and Jesus, they are not exactly worshipped as Gods themselves, yet with Mohammed he is a god and he is taken to be never wrong. Because Mohammed is a person, that produces a couple of logic problems.</p>
<p>Not only because what Mohammed taught was wrong but rather that you cannot reform Islam if you name all your children &#8220;Mohammed&#8221; as if Mohammed was some kind of God you still worship. If you bring Mohammed to such a pedestal of perfection above God, then there is no way you can question his teachings and if you cannot quesiton his teachings then you cannot correct and reform them into something humane and workable for the 21st century. Just as it was with God, and following the literal word of God put down in the Old Testament; without the influence of Jesus and the New Testament, things would be a lot harsher. But even then, I don&#8217;t hear a lot of Christians naming their children &#8220;Jesus&#8221;.
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		<title>by: Robert J. Avrech</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56962</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56962</guid>
					<description>Wonderful piece, and a fine piece of advocacy on your part. This man is, at the least, a jihadist enabler. Certainly an apologist for jihad. He gives himself away at every turn of phrase. 

When he speaks of "The illegal occupation of Palestine," of course this is code for the State of Israel. He is  &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt;  talking about Gaza, which is now Judenrein (aparteheid anyone) nor Judea and Samaria (The West Bank) which so many would like to see Judenrein—as are the 22 Arab/Muslim nations. 

I'm not really disturbed by your Muslim speaker, coating jihad in sugary tones is business as usual for these creatures who make it their business to show up at these dopey inter-faith dialogues. 

Notice: Christians and Jews &lt;em&gt;never&lt;/em&gt; explain their faith at Mosques.  As always with Muslims, interfaith dialog is a one-way street—which ends at the muzzle of  Kalachnikov.

Your speaker: Fourth Generation Warfare par excellance. 

I am extremely disturbed by the naivete of the members of your congregation. I have lived in Israel, I can tell you that Muslims persecute Christians with great ferosity whenever they have the opportunity. 

The obsequiousness displayed by your pastor, and the members of your Church, verges on the, well, stupid and suicidal

The Jews in Israel are fighting for their very national existence. They are also fighting for the existence of Judeo/Christian values. If Christians in America make common cause with jihadists under the fig-leaf of multi-culturalism—that spells doom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful piece, and a fine piece of advocacy on your part. This man is, at the least, a jihadist enabler. Certainly an apologist for jihad. He gives himself away at every turn of phrase. </p>
<p>When he speaks of &#8220;The illegal occupation of Palestine,&#8221; of course this is code for the State of Israel. He is  <em>not</em>  talking about Gaza, which is now Judenrein (aparteheid anyone) nor Judea and Samaria (The West Bank) which so many would like to see Judenrein—as are the 22 Arab/Muslim nations. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not really disturbed by your Muslim speaker, coating jihad in sugary tones is business as usual for these creatures who make it their business to show up at these dopey inter-faith dialogues. </p>
<p>Notice: Christians and Jews <em>never</em> explain their faith at Mosques.  As always with Muslims, interfaith dialog is a one-way street—which ends at the muzzle of  Kalachnikov.</p>
<p>Your speaker: Fourth Generation Warfare par excellance. </p>
<p>I am extremely disturbed by the naivete of the members of your congregation. I have lived in Israel, I can tell you that Muslims persecute Christians with great ferosity whenever they have the opportunity. </p>
<p>The obsequiousness displayed by your pastor, and the members of your Church, verges on the, well, stupid and suicidal</p>
<p>The Jews in Israel are fighting for their very national existence. They are also fighting for the existence of Judeo/Christian values. If Christians in America make common cause with jihadists under the fig-leaf of multi-culturalism—that spells doom.
</p>
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		<title>by: The Colossus of Rhodey</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56868</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56868</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;Watcher's Council results...&lt;/strong&gt;

And now...&#160; the winning entries in the Watcher's Council vote for this week are A Stunningly Dishonest Piece of Advocacy Writing About the Supreme Court by Bookworm Room, and The Rupture by Seraphic Secret.&#160; All members, please be sure to......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Watcher&#8217;s Council results&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>And now&#8230;&nbsp; the winning entries in the Watcher&#8217;s Council vote for this week are A Stunningly Dishonest Piece of Advocacy Writing About the Supreme Court by Bookworm Room, and The Rupture by Seraphic Secret.&nbsp; All members, please be sure to&#8230;&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Hoystory</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56783</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56783</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;Inconvenient truths...&lt;/strong&gt;

In the name of understanding other religions, a Muslim visited the church of a blogger named Anwyn. Anwyn didn&#8217;t let all the obfuscations, platitudes and assurances of goodwill toward others go unchallenged.

So let me get this straight: Riots of...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Inconvenient truths&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>In the name of understanding other religions, a Muslim visited the church of a blogger named Anwyn. Anwyn didn&#8217;t let all the obfuscations, platitudes and assurances of goodwill toward others go unchallenged.</p>
<p>So let me get this straight: Riots of&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Soccer Dad</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56738</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56738</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;Council speak 06/29/2007...&lt;/strong&gt;

The council has spoken. The winning council entry was Bookworm Room's A stunningly dishonest piece of advocacy writing about the Supreme Court in which she deconstructs Jeffrey Toobin's critique of the Roberts court for the New Yorker. Alas this tren...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Council speak 06/29/2007&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>The council has spoken. The winning council entry was Bookworm Room&#8217;s A stunningly dishonest piece of advocacy writing about the Supreme Court in which she deconstructs Jeffrey Toobin&#8217;s critique of the Roberts court for the New Yorker. Alas this tren&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Watcher of Weasels</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56699</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56699</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Council Has Spoken!...&lt;/strong&gt;

First off...&#160; any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here,&#160; and here.&#160; Die spambots, die!&#160; And now...&#160; the winning entries in the Watcher's Council vote for this week are A Stunningly Dishonest Piece of Ad...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Council Has Spoken!&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>First off&#8230;&nbsp; any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here,&nbsp; and here.&nbsp; Die spambots, die!&nbsp; And now&#8230;&nbsp; the winning entries in the Watcher&#8217;s Council vote for this week are A Stunningly Dishonest Piece of Ad&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Thomas Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56022</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-56022</guid>
					<description>I lived in the Middle East for a number of years in various nations.  Christians and other religions are at best harassed.  All are subjected to official government obstructionism and are often denied the protection of the law.  At worst any religion outside of Islam is treated like the plague.  Show me an area where Islam reigns and I'll show you an area without tolerance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lived in the Middle East for a number of years in various nations.  Christians and other religions are at best harassed.  All are subjected to official government obstructionism and are often denied the protection of the law.  At worst any religion outside of Islam is treated like the plague.  Show me an area where Islam reigns and I&#8217;ll show you an area without tolerance.
</p>
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		<title>by: Peter Chrzanowski</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-55967</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/06/25/muslim-speaks-at-my-church-calls-me-naive-also-tough/#comment-55967</guid>
					<description>Any “compare and contrast” exercise between Islam and Christianity needs to take into account the basic differences in the origins and history of these religions.

For better or worse, Jesus lived in a part of the world that was subject to first the indirect rule, and then the direct rule, of the overwhelming regional hegemon- that is, the Roman Empire. It is, in context, hardly surprising that Jesus did not attempt to raise an army against Rome but instead famously counseled the wisdom of “rendering unto Caesar.”  But Mohammad evolved from a small warlord into the hegemon. And, surely, these origins are well reflected in these religions’ sacred texts.

Perhaps as a result, there is no real equivalent to a Caliphate in European history: the pope was the pope and the prince was the prince and the two institutions were never combined. Thus, even  Constantine did not presume to declare himself Bishop of Rome, nor did Charlemagne grab the Pope’s vestments, nor did Innocent III declare himself king of France.
 
In short, even in those states with Established churches, there was always significant tension between church and state (as, for example, in the various investiture conflicts)- a tension which appears to be mostly absent in Islamic history.
 
Indeed, the role of religion in Islamic states seems deeper and more pervasive than has ever been the case in Christian states. Consider, for example, the meaning of “lawyer” in New York City, and in Tehran- the former is a secular professional, while to the latter, “law” is an implementation of Islam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any “compare and contrast” exercise between Islam and Christianity needs to take into account the basic differences in the origins and history of these religions.</p>
<p>For better or worse, Jesus lived in a part of the world that was subject to first the indirect rule, and then the direct rule, of the overwhelming regional hegemon- that is, the Roman Empire. It is, in context, hardly surprising that Jesus did not attempt to raise an army against Rome but instead famously counseled the wisdom of “rendering unto Caesar.”  But Mohammad evolved from a small warlord into the hegemon. And, surely, these origins are well reflected in these religions’ sacred texts.</p>
<p>Perhaps as a result, there is no real equivalent to a Caliphate in European history: the pope was the pope and the prince was the prince and the two institutions were never combined. Thus, even  Constantine did not presume to declare himself Bishop of Rome, nor did Charlemagne grab the Pope’s vestments, nor did Innocent III declare himself king of France.</p>
<p>In short, even in those states with Established churches, there was always significant tension between church and state (as, for example, in the various investiture conflicts)- a tension which appears to be mostly absent in Islamic history.</p>
<p>Indeed, the role of religion in Islamic states seems deeper and more pervasive than has ever been the case in Christian states. Consider, for example, the meaning of “lawyer” in New York City, and in Tehran- the former is a secular professional, while to the latter, “law” is an implementation of Islam.
</p>
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