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	<title>Comments on: Weekly Tolkien: Break Your Heart</title>
	<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/05/09/weekly-tolkien-break-your-heart/</link>
	<description>Sometime editor, all-the-time mother, delivering facts, reviews, commentary, and rants. Occasionally in that order.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: fallohide</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/05/09/weekly-tolkien-break-your-heart/#comment-34234</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 21:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/05/09/weekly-tolkien-break-your-heart/#comment-34234</guid>
					<description>It is an interesting passage. When I was younger, I did not really see the need for caution in Elrond's comissioning address. Of COURSE the Fellowship was going to stand by Frodo as long as they could, as far as all Nine Walkers could walk without interference by the bad guys. After all, if they ran away or dropped out at when the going got tough, they wouldn't be Frodo's true companions, right? 

Twenty years gone by now, and I see things differently. It is quite natural for people to make pledges for causes that they intend to keep, as long as there is little price to pay for it. When things start to look as long &#38; as difficult as the far-sighted had warned, then suddenly things are different. There are summer soldiers &#38; sunshine patriots, and they will quit when the road falls under the Shadow. The oaths and promises given so boldly with confidence in the sunlit morning  seem oppressive in the dark of night, with winter's chill in the air. 

The real danger to any Cause is not from any external threat, it's from the internal weakness caused by doubt &#38; despair. Elrond warns the Fellowship that they will face many trials, all which must be overcome by first deciding to go forward, with or without Frodo. The plan may change, the road may lead into dangerous places, the enemies may grow in quantity &#38; quality, the Ring itself may choose to intervene.... Better safe than sorry, perhaps. The Fellowship has already proved their innate worth by agreeing to set out on the road to Mount Doom with Frodo. Who can seriously call them chicken after that? If the other members of the Fellowship can't finish the trip with him, then maybe it's because they need to accomplish  another task to help Frodo reach his goal. If they can't make it another step, better to turn aside and find another deed within their capability, than slog on in dwindling resolve until disaster threatens.

After reading LagunaDave's excellent post, I have to say that  Elrond is wise to not require any oath or pledge from the members of the Fellowship, beyond their own agreement. It actually does more than a formal oath, because the individual Fellowship members will probably go further, with more genuine resolve, if they need only say to themselves, "it's to help Frodo". Left to their own devices, seven of the Nine Walkers prove more than willing to voluntarily follow along, doing whatever they can to help, although in the end only Sam goes the whole distance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is an interesting passage. When I was younger, I did not really see the need for caution in Elrond&#8217;s comissioning address. Of COURSE the Fellowship was going to stand by Frodo as long as they could, as far as all Nine Walkers could walk without interference by the bad guys. After all, if they ran away or dropped out at when the going got tough, they wouldn&#8217;t be Frodo&#8217;s true companions, right? </p>
<p>Twenty years gone by now, and I see things differently. It is quite natural for people to make pledges for causes that they intend to keep, as long as there is little price to pay for it. When things start to look as long &amp; as difficult as the far-sighted had warned, then suddenly things are different. There are summer soldiers &amp; sunshine patriots, and they will quit when the road falls under the Shadow. The oaths and promises given so boldly with confidence in the sunlit morning  seem oppressive in the dark of night, with winter&#8217;s chill in the air. </p>
<p>The real danger to any Cause is not from any external threat, it&#8217;s from the internal weakness caused by doubt &amp; despair. Elrond warns the Fellowship that they will face many trials, all which must be overcome by first deciding to go forward, with or without Frodo. The plan may change, the road may lead into dangerous places, the enemies may grow in quantity &amp; quality, the Ring itself may choose to intervene&#8230;. Better safe than sorry, perhaps. The Fellowship has already proved their innate worth by agreeing to set out on the road to Mount Doom with Frodo. Who can seriously call them chicken after that? If the other members of the Fellowship can&#8217;t finish the trip with him, then maybe it&#8217;s because they need to accomplish  another task to help Frodo reach his goal. If they can&#8217;t make it another step, better to turn aside and find another deed within their capability, than slog on in dwindling resolve until disaster threatens.</p>
<p>After reading LagunaDave&#8217;s excellent post, I have to say that  Elrond is wise to not require any oath or pledge from the members of the Fellowship, beyond their own agreement. It actually does more than a formal oath, because the individual Fellowship members will probably go further, with more genuine resolve, if they need only say to themselves, &#8220;it&#8217;s to help Frodo&#8221;. Left to their own devices, seven of the Nine Walkers prove more than willing to voluntarily follow along, doing whatever they can to help, although in the end only Sam goes the whole distance.
</p>
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		<title>by: LagunaDave</title>
		<link>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/05/09/weekly-tolkien-break-your-heart/#comment-33198</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2007 19:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.anwyn.com/2007/05/09/weekly-tolkien-break-your-heart/#comment-33198</guid>
					<description>Woo-hoo!  :-)

&lt;blockquote&gt;
A moderate amount of language to set up the short, pointy part: Sworn word may strengthen quaking heart/Or break it.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think there's another relevant passage:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
'The Company of the Ring shall be Nine; &lt;i&gt;and the Nine Walkers shall be set against the Nine Riders that are evil.&lt;/i&gt;'

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As slaves to the ring and Sauron's will, the Nine Riders (Nazgul) are under the strictest of compulsion, even though they made a free choice originally.  But that choice  effectively annihilated all future choices - once they had accepted Sauron's "gift", or very shortly thereafter, they lost the ability to make further choices for themselves.

I think the contrast between the Nine Walkers and the Nine Riders is pretty important.  Earlier in Rivendell, Pippin exuberantly refers to "Frodo, Lord of the Ring!" and is swiftly corrected by Gandalf.

To swear an oath is to place oneself under compulsion - to cede the freedom to choose.  Even if made with the best of intentions, this is dangerous.

Elrond would have been well aware of the Oath of Feanor, which showed how "sworn word" can lead good people...err, elves...to do great evil when fulfillment of the oath trumps their sense of right and wrong.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Then Feanor swore a terrible oath. His seven sons leapt straightaway to his side and took the selfsame vow together, and red as blood shone their drawn swords in the glare of the torches. They swore an oath which none shall break, &lt;i&gt;and none should take,&lt;/i&gt; by even the name of Iluvatar, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them if they kept it not; and Manwe they named in witness, and Varda, and the hallowed mountain of Taniquetil, vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn, or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from their possession.

Thus spoke Maedhros and Maglor and Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir, Amrod and Amras, princes of the Noldor; and many quailed to hear the dread words. &lt;i&gt;For so sworn, good or evil, an oath may not be broken, and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Suffice it to say, this was not such a good idea:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the moutains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. &lt;i&gt;Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Disposessed shall they be forever.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course, Frodo's acceptance of "the burden" does essentially destroy him, to the point where the only way to escape the consequences is to leave Middle Earth.  It was a terrible sacrifice, but a necessary one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woo-hoo!  :-)</p>
<blockquote><p>
A moderate amount of language to set up the short, pointy part: Sworn word may strengthen quaking heart/Or break it.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think there&#8217;s another relevant passage:</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8216;The Company of the Ring shall be Nine; <i>and the Nine Walkers shall be set against the Nine Riders that are evil.</i>&#8216;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>As slaves to the ring and Sauron&#8217;s will, the Nine Riders (Nazgul) are under the strictest of compulsion, even though they made a free choice originally.  But that choice  effectively annihilated all future choices - once they had accepted Sauron&#8217;s &#8220;gift&#8221;, or very shortly thereafter, they lost the ability to make further choices for themselves.</p>
<p>I think the contrast between the Nine Walkers and the Nine Riders is pretty important.  Earlier in Rivendell, Pippin exuberantly refers to &#8220;Frodo, Lord of the Ring!&#8221; and is swiftly corrected by Gandalf.</p>
<p>To swear an oath is to place oneself under compulsion - to cede the freedom to choose.  Even if made with the best of intentions, this is dangerous.</p>
<p>Elrond would have been well aware of the Oath of Feanor, which showed how &#8220;sworn word&#8221; can lead good people&#8230;err, elves&#8230;to do great evil when fulfillment of the oath trumps their sense of right and wrong.  </p>
<blockquote><p>
Then Feanor swore a terrible oath. His seven sons leapt straightaway to his side and took the selfsame vow together, and red as blood shone their drawn swords in the glare of the torches. They swore an oath which none shall break, <i>and none should take,</i> by even the name of Iluvatar, calling the Everlasting Dark upon them if they kept it not; and Manwe they named in witness, and Varda, and the hallowed mountain of Taniquetil, vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn, or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from their possession.</p>
<p>Thus spoke Maedhros and Maglor and Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir, Amrod and Amras, princes of the Noldor; and many quailed to hear the dread words. <i>For so sworn, good or evil, an oath may not be broken, and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world&#8217;s end.</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Suffice it to say, this was not such a good idea:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the moutains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. <i>Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Disposessed shall they be forever.</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Of course, Frodo&#8217;s acceptance of &#8220;the burden&#8221; does essentially destroy him, to the point where the only way to escape the consequences is to leave Middle Earth.  It was a terrible sacrifice, but a necessary one.
</p>
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